If we were not sinners, Jesus would not have had to come. If he

Host:
The room was quiet, the gentle hum of the world outside barely audible as the evening light began to soften. Jack sat at the window, staring out at the dimming sky, his thoughts drifting somewhere deep. Jeeny was seated across from him, her fingers loosely folded in her lap, her expression thoughtful but calm. There was an unspoken stillness between them, as if the weight of a larger question was waiting to be addressed.

Jeeny:
(She speaks softly, her voice filled with a gentle intensity.)
“I came across a quote today by Kirk Franklin. He said, ‘If we were not sinners, Jesus would not have had to come. If he didn't see us as sinners, he could have loved us without dying for us. He died for our sins. So if we're all sinners, that means everybody's in the pot together needing the same love, the same grace and the same forgiveness.’ It made me think about the concept of forgiveness — how we all need it, no matter who we are or where we come from. What do you think about that?”

Jack:
(He looks up from the window, his voice reflective, though with a hint of hesitation.)
“It’s a powerful thought, for sure. I’ve always struggled with the idea of sin, though. I mean, if we’re all sinners, it kind of implies that everyone is flawed, right? But it also means that we’re all in this together, needing the same grace, the same forgiveness. It makes me wonder, how do we reconcile the fact that we all make mistakes, yet we’re all worthy of love and forgiveness?”

Jeeny:
(She nods, her voice gentle, yet filled with a quiet strength.)
“I think that’s the beauty of it, Jack. We’re not judged by how perfect we are, but by how much grace we’re willing to accept. If everyone needs the same love, grace, and forgiveness, then it means no one is beyond reach, no matter their past or their mistakes. It’s humbling, really — to think that Jesus came to offer that forgiveness to everyone, regardless of where they’ve been or what they’ve done. It’s not about being perfect, but about acknowledging our imperfections and accepting the grace that’s freely given.”

Jack:
(He pauses, his voice softer now, almost searching for clarity.)
“But why is it so hard for people to accept that kind of grace? I mean, if we all need it, why do we struggle so much with forgiving ourselves — or even others? It feels like we’re constantly trying to earn forgiveness, like we have to prove we’re worthy of it.”

Jeeny:
(She shifts slightly, her voice calm, but filled with empathy.)
“I think it’s because we’re so used to the idea of earning love, Jack. We live in a world where we’re taught to prove ourselves — whether it’s in relationships, careers, or even our faith. The concept of unconditional grace is hard to wrap our heads around because it’s not based on what we do or don’t do. But the truth is, grace is given freely, without conditions. It’s not about how worthy we are; it’s about what we choose to believe about ourselves and others. If we can accept that grace for ourselves, we can extend it to others too.”

Jack:
(He looks down, his voice quieter, almost reflective.)
“I think that's the part I struggle with — accepting grace, without feeling like I have to prove myself first. It’s like you said, the world teaches us to earn everything, but maybe grace isn’t something we can earn, it’s something we have to allow ourselves to receive. I wonder if part of the challenge is letting go of the idea that we have to be perfect to be loved or forgiven.”

Jeeny:
(She smiles softly, her voice filled with understanding.)
“That’s exactly it. Grace is about letting go of the need to be perfect and accepting the fact that we’re all imperfect, but still worthy of love and forgiveness. The truth is, we all fall short — but that doesn’t disqualify us from receiving the same grace that we need to extend to others. It’s a reminder that we’re all in the same boat, needing the same love, the same forgiveness. No one is better or worse than anyone else in the eyes of grace.”

Host:
The room feels a little warmer now, as though the weight of their conversation has created a space for understanding and acceptance. Jack and Jeeny sit together, each contemplating the depth of grace and forgiveness — how we all share in the need for both, regardless of our flaws or past mistakes. The world outside continues its steady rhythm, but inside, there’s a shared understanding that grace is not about perfection, but about accepting what is given freely, to everyone, with love.