One of the things I definitely think of as a driver of me is

Host: The dim light of the room casts a calming warmth, as evening falls outside. The world is quiet, save for the occasional sounds drifting in from the street. Jeeny sits on the couch, her legs tucked underneath her, a cup of tea resting on the table in front of her. Jack, standing near the window, watches the darkening world, deep in thought. The air in the room feels still, as if waiting for a conversation to unfold.

Jeeny: “Jack, I came across something today that made me think,” she says softly, breaking the silence. “It’s from Jocko Willink. He said, ‘One of the things I definitely think of as a driver of me is fear. And it’s fear of failure, fear of being overtaken.’ What do you think about that?”

Jack: He turns, his expression thoughtful. “Fear as a driver, huh? That’s pretty raw. I get that fear can be a powerful motivator, but it sounds like it’s a pretty intense place to come from. Do you think fear is always a good driver? Or is it something that can hold you back too?”

Jeeny: “I think it’s a bit of both,” she replies, her voice reflective. “Fear can be an incredibly powerful motivator. It can push you to work harder, to stay ahead, and to keep striving for improvement. But at the same time, fear can also become overwhelming. It can drive you to act out of anxiety rather than purpose, which can be just as limiting as not acting at all.”

Host: The light from the window deepens, casting long shadows across the room. The conversation begins to shift, the idea of fear as both a motivating and potentially restricting force hanging in the air. Jeeny’s perspective introduces a balance between the two sides of fear — how it can propel us forward, but also how it can shape our decisions in a way that isn’t always helpful.

Jack: “I get what you mean. Fear of failure can be a huge motivator. It’s like the fear of falling short or losing everything pushes you to keep moving, to keep working. But it sounds like it can also trap you. If you’re constantly worried about being overtaken or falling behind, you’re always running from something instead of running towards something.”

Jeeny: “Exactly. When fear is the primary driver, it can make you feel like you’re always playing catch-up. You’re focused on what you’re running away from, rather than what you’re running towards. Fear of failure might push you to work harder, but it can also cloud your judgment, making you focus on the worst-case scenarios rather than staying clear and focused on your goals.”

Host: The quiet of the room deepens, the weight of the conversation settling in. The idea of fear as both a source of motivation and a potential hindrance is something that resonates between them. Jeeny speaks with understanding, offering a perspective that acknowledges the duality of fear’s role in driving us forward, but also the risk of letting it consume us.

Jack: “So, you’re saying it’s about finding a balance? Fear isn’t inherently bad, but it’s about using it wisely, not letting it control you or dictate your actions based on what you’re afraid of?”

Jeeny: “Yes. Fear can help you stay alert, focused, and driven. But when it starts to take over, it can keep you from seeing the bigger picture. It can push you into a reactionary mindset, where you’re always trying to avoid failure instead of stepping into opportunities with confidence. The key is using fear to stay motivated, but not letting it define your actions.”

Host: The room feels quieter now, as if the conversation has reached a deeper understanding. Jack and Jeeny sit in the stillness, each contemplating how fear influences their actions, their motivations, and how to navigate it with clarity and purpose. The balance between using fear as a driver and ensuring it doesn’t overtake us is a delicate one, and it feels like a realization has settled between them — fear doesn’t have to be a bad thing, as long as we’re in control of how we let it shape our path.