Religious organizations exist to foster the interests of persons

Host: The evening light poured through the café window, bathing the room in a warm golden glow. The air felt thick with humidity, as the rain had just finished, leaving a heavy silence behind. Jack sat, leaning against the back of his chair, his eyes distant, focused on the street beyond. Jeeny sat across from him, her fingers lightly tracing the rim of her coffee cup, lost in thought, her expression as soft as the lighting around them.

Host: There was a quiet between them, the kind that always felt pregnant with unspoken words. But then, the stillness was broken, as Jeeny finally spoke, her voice gentle, but there was a certain urgency behind it.

Jeeny: “I came across a quote today by Ruth Bader Ginsburg that made me think. She said, ‘Religious organizations exist to foster the interests of persons subscribing to the same religious faith. Not so of for-profit corporations. Workers who sustain the operations of those corporations commonly are not drawn from one religious community.’ What do you think about that? Do you think corporations are truly separate from the values that shape society?”

Jack: He raised an eyebrow, taking a slow sip from his coffee before placing the cup down gently. His eyes met hers, a flicker of cynicism crossing his sharp features. “You think corporations aren’t shaped by faith or values? They’re built on a certain morality, but it’s not a spiritual one—it’s a materialistic one. It’s about profits, not ethics. Ginsburg's point might sound noble, but in reality, a corporation exists to serve its shareholders, not the collective good. If the religious community doesn’t share a common interest in profit, then, of course, they’re not bound by the same kind of moral compass. It’s a pragmatic system, not a spiritual one.”

Jeeny: Her eyes softened as she listened, but she shook her head slightly, a wisp of defiance crossing her face. “But Jack, just because corporations don’t have the same guiding principles as religious organizations doesn’t mean they don’t influence the values of the people within them. When you look at a corporation, you can see how the ideals of the leaders trickle down to the rest of the company. Profit is important, sure, but what happens when that pursuit of profit comes at the expense of humanity, of the greater good? Ginsburg is pointing out the disconnect—how corporations claim to be neutral, yet they hold tremendous sway over how we live and work.”

Host: The rain outside had stopped, but there was an electricity in the air, as if their words had started to stir something beneath the surface. Jack’s hands tightened slightly around his coffee cup, the tension in his jaw becoming more apparent.

Jack: “I get what you’re saying, Jeeny, but to me, this sounds like an idealistic view of what corporations should be. Change doesn’t come from wishing they were more like a religious group—it comes from people challenging those systems from within, not waiting for a spiritual awakening. In reality, those systems are designed to protect the interests of the few, and they use ideals to justify themselves, not to actually bring about any real change. You can't moralize capitalism and expect it to function. It’s cold and calculating, and I think denying that is dangerous.”

Jeeny: Her voice grew firmer, a quiet passion rising in her. “But Jack, isn’t that the problem? That we’ve normalized the idea that profit and human flourishing can’t coexist? Just because something is cold doesn’t mean it can’t change, and just because capitalism is the system doesn’t mean it’s unchangeable. Ginsburg’s point is that we shouldn’t accept a world where people are simply cogs in a machine. We should demand that these corporations be held accountable for the human cost, not just the monetary one. Ethics can’t be an afterthought in business; they need to be the foundation.”

Host: The room felt heavier now, the flickering candlelight casting sharp shadows over their faces. Jack’s eyes grew darker, his fingers tapping the side of his coffee cup. The tension between them felt tangible, like a fine thread stretched to its limit.

Jack: “And yet, it is an afterthought, Jeeny. It’s realistic to say that most corporations will never prioritize humanity over profit because it’s not built into their DNA. Human rights are a luxury in capitalism, not the foundation. If you want them to act with more compassion, you’re going to have to change the entire structure, not just their mindset. No corporation will ever fully care about the individual as long as the system rewards the corporate elite for ignoring the collective good. You can’t just wish for a change like that.”

Jeeny: Her eyes narrowed slightly, her voice calm, but there was a flicker of something deeper in her gaze. “Then maybe we should stop thinking of corporations as natural or immutable. Maybe we need to look at them for what they are: structures that serve a system, not the people. Maybe it’s time we redefine the way business functions so that people and ethics come first. Yes, it’s hard. But I refuse to believe that systems built by humans can’t be changed by humans, Jack. We can make them work for us, not the other way around.”

Host: The air between them seemed to thicken, a heavy silence falling over the café. Outside, the sky was clearing, the first light of evening beginning to shine through the clouds, but the ambiance inside remained taut, like the calm before a storm.

Jack: His voice softened slightly, his words slower, but there was still a hint of stubbornness. “I want to believe that, Jeeny. But I also know how hard it is to change something as entrenched as that. What you’re asking for isn’t just a change in thought—it’s a revolution. And revolutions don’t always work out the way you expect them to.”

Jeeny: There was a brief pause, and then she spoke, her voice softer but more certain. “Maybe, Jack, it’s not about a revolution. Maybe it’s about gradually making small, impactful changes within the system until the system can’t function without compassion. We don’t have to tear everything down to make it better. But if we don’t push for it, nothing will ever shift. And that’s why we can’t afford to be cynical or resigned to what’s wrong.”

Host: The room felt quieter now, as if the storm of their argument had passed. Silence settled, thick with understanding but unspoken acceptance of the differing views. The soft glow of the evening light touched their faces, the weight of the conversation leaving a lingering presence in the space between them.

Jack: He finally broke the silence, his tone more reflective now. “Maybe… maybe you’re right. Maybe there’s more hope in pushing for small changes than I give it credit for. But the truth is, I’m tired of being sold that everything can be fixed in a few steps.”

Jeeny: “It’s not about being sold, Jack. It’s about believing that change is possible, one step at a time. Together.”

Host: The light in the café flickered gently, casting a soft reflection on the wet streets outside. The tension between them had softened, replaced by a quiet understanding that their paths—though different—held a shared truth: systems are built by people, and people can change them. Jack and Jeeny sat, their eyes meeting in the silence, each one grappling with the weight of their beliefs, but both knowing that dialogue was the first step toward transformation.